quote:

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I'm doing research on the roots of my style, which is a blend of Shotokan(75%) and Kun Tao(25%). The Kun Tao part descends from Grand Master Willem Reeders, but I've been unable to find accurate information on specifically what style of Kun Tao he learned and taught. I'm not looking for the stuff that Master Guy Savelli is teaching.(I've got my reservations about the authenticity of what he's teaching) In other words, the Kun Tao that Master Reeders taught without all the "spiritual" stuff that some people have thrown into it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Ron

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I found a few links:
http://www.geocities.com/kungfufed/reeders.html
http://home.rochester.rr.com/erikh/Kungfu.html
You can also check out nasda.net
it's Grandmaster Art Sikes site, he was GM Reeders top student.
I just started learning Reeder's Kun Tao Silat, and have been trying to find out info on it too. I guess it's easier to find out what he didn't study!

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Ron

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Thanks to Ron for the e-mailed reference, I'm having that followed up on. Thanks also to runsun for the information..unfortunately I e-mailed Master Sikes a number of months back, but he has never responded...I will continue to search. Thanks again!

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Ron

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duh, what am I thinking? I can just ask my teacher. He studied under GM Reeders also! He's an inner door student to GM Sikes too, his mother used to be married to GM Sikes. GM Sikes' school is in Cleveland, and we're in Buffalo, but my teacher still travels to his school several times throughout the year. You want to know styles? I'll ask him. I know he's told me about the silat, Ba Gua Zhang, Tai Chi, and Arnis influence so far. Center line theory too, similar to Wing Chun. I get the feeling that all these guys don't like the internet too much, as evidenced by the lack of info out there.
Also, as far as Savelli, I don't know about him too much. I heard that al though he did earn his orange sash, he didn't "earn" his orange sash.

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Ron

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Not sure if this is pertinent , but a Guy Savelli's web site worldkungfu.com . In it he implies he is a student of Master Reeder[ or was ] Secret movement#4 is to me vague. footwork patterns I can't figure [ thats why there secret you dummy]. Check it out , perhaps explain it to me.

D Van

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Ron

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

quote:

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greetings,
i am a student of indonesian/chinese self defense methods of GM Sikes, a pupil of both GGM Willem Reeders and Goeroe Willie Wetzel.

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

---

Ron

sorry, didnt mean to infer any 'contrivance' on your part.

i think we both agree that practice is the key to success.

"As for the diamond footwork pattern, in our style of Kun Tao it is used to get off your opponents centerline, especially if he hs a weapon of some sort, projectile or otherwise! It definately is very valuable to any style to understand that particular pattern along with the others as well. It gives that effortless effort advantage needed so you don't have to be a serious athlete along with being big and strong just to handle an average street situation...if one should occur, of course! In conclusion, I personally feel Kun Tao ha educated me to understand all the other styles I do. And vise versa!"

triangular movement is a distinguishing feature of our style of self defense as well. the use of the feet for mobility and as weaponry along lines of engagement that are designed to intercept the attacker and destroy both his balance and structure, preferably whilst striking him.

use of the triangle for a template to understand the strength and weaknessess of the human body has been very beneficial for me in understanding the application of my art.

by comparison, the male triangle is like 'entering' of aikido. first timing-interceptive.

the female triangle is like 'tenkan' or turning, and allows attaching and redirecting of strong attacks.

when combined with a forward penetrative movement coming from the advantageous angle which can influence the spine of the opponent, these movements become extremely effective.

besides the triangle, we use the square and circle(spiral) geometry. kind of an amorphous categorization system that encompasses an untold number of techniques based on a basic 'alphabet' of movements. variation in principle creates variation in technique, as long as it conforms to good principle, its good.

i think the orientation towards intelligent and correspondent movement is one of the major strengths of kuntao/silat/kuntaw styles.

peace.

quote:

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I am a student of WM kune tao under Bob Servidio and Scott Young. Master Reeders studied Kune Tao from his uncle Lieu Sieong. He also studied many other things as well. As far as the pattern goes, it is a representation of the footwork of the 3, 4, and 5 stances and the circles are just the range of movement of the feet. As far as Savelli goes, he only earned an orange sash and the story about beating Reeders is obviosly false. I have heard of a story that could have been twisted to reach this conclusion but I will not go into this online.

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Ron

To nasda2: Thanks for the description of Reeders' Kun Tao...Does the style have a specific NAME? To answer your question about where I study...I study in Erie,PA and practice a style called "Chinese Kung Fu Karate Self-Defense". It's the style that Guy Savelli invented back in the 60's. It's basically 75% Shotokan and 25% Kun Tao...I guess you could say it's pretty close to Shaolin Kempo. I've been searching for knowledge on the Kun Tao side of it(name,techniques,etc.) There are two schools that currently teach the style here in Erie. (My WIFE is one of the school owners and my instructor!) I appreciate any further information you could provide! Thanks!

quote:

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www.worldkungfu.com

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Ron

the only info that i have says that he learned the family style of kuntao from his uncle, Leong Lui Seong. according to tradition, his uncle was a shaolin priest.

so it stands to reason that his kuntao was potentially of both family origin and shaolin derivation. this is just a an assumption.

as well, GGM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

i'll ask teacher, he probably knows a little more.

quote:

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Ells,

the only info that i have says that he learned the family style of kuntao from his uncle, Leong Lui Seong. according to tradition, his uncle was a shaolin priest.

so it stands to reason that his kuntao was potentially of both family origin and shaolin derivation. this is just a an assumption.

as well, GGM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

i'll ask teacher, he probably knows a little more.

---

Ron

my teacher, GM Arthur Sikes, is near seventy now, his martial arts are extremely well developed, to say the least. his teacher, GGM Reeders, came from Indonesia, having studied in China as well, and perhaps other places. My teacher also studied with Goeroe Willie Wetzel.

what has been given to me to train is indeed quite different from the normal run of martial arts. far superior, imo, to the general fare doled out in many schools.

as you, i consider myself very fortunate to have been given the opportunity to learn kuntao.

i understand you very well when you say that kuntao helps you to understand all the other arts you train in. i think this is because of its focus on essential principles of combat, basically the 'physics' of fighting.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"
I apologize about that statement, didn't mean to give false info.

Glad to see you're on the internet, about time! LOL!

Yo', this is Carlos, in case you haven't figured it out.

BTW, can you explain the link between GGM Reeders and Mas Djut? I don't really understand the relationship that well.

Anyway, I hope to see you soon!

Yo', I went to a boxing gym a couple of times these past couple of weeks. This last time, I actually was able to get into the ring to do some body work, did about 4-5 rounds with two different cats. One cat was like "You're pretty good with your elbows, I couldn't get in!" LOL! I was like, yeah, that's bak sai!

i knew it was you.

Mas Djut...Master Reeders

Willem Reeders trained with Ernest DeVries. Ernest was a student of Mas Djut. some say Ernest took Willem to Djut. Others say that Willem trained only with Ernest. mas Djut died in 1930, Master Reeders would have been about fourteen at the time.

more likely, Master Reeders met Ernest Devries in a POW camp in Siam(Thailand). this was a result of either WW2 or the Indonesian Independance War. Master Reeders was in the Dutch Navy during this time. now he would have been about twenty five or thirty years of age.

The DeVries family inherited the Serak system. Master Reeders trained only in combat application/technique in Serak, not the forms. apparently a habit of his. he had over ten silat teachers...

some say that Mas Djut learned the Serak system from Bapak Serak, a Badui tribesman. Opinions on this vary wildly, i will not conjecture on something so far removed from myself.

Another assertion is that Mas Djut was a Cimande(Tjimande) stylist, who was a bodyguard to a local ruler. dont remember the exact details, gonna have to look it up again...

"One cat was like "You're pretty good with your elbows, I couldn't get in!" LOL! I was like, yeah, that's bak sai!"

too bad he was wearing gloves.

"Glad to see you're on the internet, about time! LOL!"

it is fun, cuts into training time however.

Carlos,i was thinking it would be nice to have our own message board, for NASDA. dont want to loiter on psdtc's site.

Peace.

From: "Acadeny of Chinese-Indonesian Fighting Arts" <acifa@r...>
Date: Thu May 31, 2001 11:21 pm
Subject: Master Reeders' Chuan Fa

Jeff,

Master Reeders had learned and taught a number of different martial arts. Back in the late 50's through the 60's until 19'72 when he moved to New Mexico. He taught Shotokan Karate, Pukulan, and what was called Chuan Fa in the western New York and PA area. He also taught some Kuntao to some students. Those who were taught the Chuan Fa saw Kuntao in class but Master Reeders would make it clear that his family Kuntao was for family only. But much of the Chuan Fa had Kuntao influence and overtones. Master Reeders was part Chinese. His mother was Dutch-Chinese. His grandmother was full Chinese. His grandmother's brother was a Shaolin priest and taught Master Reeders his family Kuntao and the Shaolin arts. When Master Reeders was 12, his great uncle started taking him to the Shaolin temple to train. The Chuan Fa I learned, from what I have gather is a combination of several different systems. Hok Chan (sometimes called Huc Chung) a system that is southern Chinese martial art with very fast finger (bil gee) strikes and in close fighting techniques. Master Reeders taught a form called Tweetang. Though he never came right out and called it Mustika Tweetang Silat, many student suspect that is what it was. It was a number of finger strikes, angular movements, elbow strikes, and blocks that are more like strikes than blocks. There was a number of forms that was also taught that were what Master Reeders called Shaolin forms. There was also taught a short form that was called Pok Soy (slap block) which some in this system called Ba Sai. It is mostly elbows strikes and strikes to the throat and groin. With one kick that can be used as a toe kick to the butt hole and other nasty uses. Some high ranking students of Master Reeders said the that Pok Soy(Ba Sai) form was a family Kuntao form but it is hard to say for sure because Master Reeders Kuntao was not openly shared even today. But all said and done what is taught now is a combination of the Chinese southern martial arts and the Indonesian martial arts that Master Reeders shared with his students.
Well hope to see some of you at Joe's seminar. He is very knowledgeable practitioner and a good human being and a pleasure to be with.

Zaijian and Hormat,
george reyngoudt
____________________________________________________________________

Peace, I'm about to go to the park to train!

i understand you very well when you say that kuntao helps you to understand all the other arts you train in. i think this is because of its focus on essential principles of combat, basically the 'physics' of fighting.

[/quote]

While hat you say is true, for me, I learned a l abput Kun Tao from my the styles as well. By experiencing other style, you get to see other methods and approaches to dfferent attacks. That alone can mae anyones existing martial art that much better. Experience isthe best teacher!

Carlos,i was thinking it would be nice to have our own message board, for NASDA. dont want to loiter on psdtc's site.

Peace.

[/quote]

Feel free to loiter all you want to. This is a public forum I had put here for educating the public on our martial arts and what makes other martial arts tick. Unlike many other forums on te web that put down other instructors and call each other on to a keyboard fiht, I wanted this to be an informative area of the psdtc.com site. So you abd anyone ekse out there have fun giving people your knowledge. Espectially anything on history of the SE Asian fightin styles.

How do you know about Savelli?

Ron
---------------------------------------------------

I would have to disagree with this statement. To say that it is a principal in ALL combative arts is erroneous.
Silat is a battlefield art, and as such wasn't developed around the centre line principle, as it's not practical when using weapons, specially against aggressors on horses, with swords, bayonetts etc...

There are strikes to areas in and around the centre line, but it's not focused or emphasised, and is just another part of the anatomy to attack. When facing a bladed weapon,the centre line is no more dangerous than any other part of the body (The back, the side of teh head, etc...), and Silat (which has a very heavy influence in Kuntao) is developed around the blade.

Regards
Paul

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-------------------------------------------------
Center line is in ALL combative martial arts. It is where the human body has the most leverage advantage fo defending, locking on the gound or standing. It's just that most instructor don't realize that so they don't mention it.

How do you know about Savelli?

Ron
---------------------------------------------------

I would have to disagree with this statement. To say that it is a principal in ALL combative arts is erroneous.
Silat is a battlefield art, and as such wasn't developed around the centre line principle, as it's not practical when using weapons, specially against aggressors on horses, with swords, bayonetts etc...

There are strikes to areas in and around the centre line, but it's not focused or emphasised, and is just another part of the anatomy to attack. When facing a bladed weapon,the centre line is no more dangerous than any other part of the body (The back, the side of teh head, etc...), and Silat (which has a very heavy influence in Kuntao) is developed around the blade.

Regards
Paul

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 05706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

Kick, kick and kick some more.

Apprentice Inosanto System of FMA, JKD Concepts.

Instructor certified by Frank Cucci in Linxx system.

quote:

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The claims of Guy Savelli and his groupies are just outright superstitious. People do not have superpowers, neither can they develop superpowers with training. If Guy or anyone else really thinks he can paralize people with willpower, there is one-million dollars out there for him to claim by simply proving it.

Kick, kick and kick some more.

Apprentice Inosanto System of FMA, JKD Concepts.

Instructor certified by Frank Cucci in Linxx system.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 05706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

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The claims of Guy Savelli and his groupies are just outright superstitious. People do not have superpowers, neither can they develop superpowers with training. If Guy or anyone else really thinks he can paralize people with willpower, there is one-million dollars out there for him to claim by simply proving it.

Kick, kick and kick some more.

Apprentice Inosanto System of FMA, JKD Concepts.

Instructor certified by Frank Cucci in Linxx system.

---

"Man can only stand when he stands in the Light."

quote:

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quote:

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The claims of Guy Savelli and his groupies are just outright superstitious. People do not have superpowers, neither can they develop superpowers with training. If Guy or anyone else really thinks he can paralize people with willpower, there is one-million dollars out there for him to claim by simply proving it.

Kick, kick and kick some more.

Apprentice Inosanto System of FMA, JKD Concepts.

Instructor certified by Frank Cucci in Linxx system.

---

Hmm quite a cynical argument you have there. Of course with such and argument I can see why YOU can't do such a thing.

Hello everyone (who might be wondering who I am), I am a martial artist, as I'm sure most of you are. I happened to stumble upon these forums, and the name Savelli caught my attention. I read on through, and have seen mixed arguments, although I just skimmed through the forums; there was two pages of it.

Okay now for my opinion: I think Savelli is telling the truth of what he is doing. There IS such a thing as Chi/Qi/Ki. Many people don't realise that it exists or that they can even use it. Many people are also "worn down" by the world and life, and become either cynical, doubtful, faithless, or just never look. Hence unbelief of it's existence.

Oh, and I'm sure that Mr. Savelli could get a million dollars if he wanted to win it, but if he hasn't done it by now either he doesn't want it or he is leaving it for someone else.

"Man can only stand when he stands in the Light."

---

quote:

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Since we're on the subject of TRUTH...In a free video brochure he has a family member actually claim that he turned his EYES into those of a LEOPARD while sitting down after an Easter dinner! Is THIS "Chi/Qi/Ki", or actually some strategically placed contact lenses???

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Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 05706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

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Sorry for being away from the forum for a while, I've had some health issues to deal with...Everything's fine!

To nasda2: Thanks for the description of Reeders' Kun Tao...Does the style have a specific NAME? To answer your question about where I study...I study in Erie,PA and practice a style called "Chinese Kung Fu Karate Self-Defense". It's the style that Guy Savelli invented back in the 60's. It's basically 75% Shotokan and 25% Kun Tao...I guess you could say it's pretty close to Shaolin Kempo. I've been searching for knowledge on the Kun Tao side of it(name,techniques,etc.) There are two schools that currently teach the style here in Erie. (My WIFE is one of the school owners and my instructor!) I appreciate any further information you could provide! Thanks!

---

quote:

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quote:

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The claims of Guy Savelli and his groupies are just outright superstitious. People do not have superpowers, neither can they develop superpowers with training. If Guy or anyone else really thinks he can paralize people with willpower, there is one-million dollars out there for him to claim by simply proving it.

Kick, kick and kick some more.

Apprentice Inosanto System of FMA, JKD Concepts.

Instructor certified by Frank Cucci in Linxx system.

---

Hmm quite a cynical argument you have there. Of course with such and argument I can see why YOU can't do such a thing.

Hello everyone (who might be wondering who I am), I am a martial artist, as I'm sure most of you are. I happened to stumble upon these forums, and the name Savelli caught my attention. I read on through, and have seen mixed arguments, although I just skimmed through the forums; there was two pages of it.

Okay now for my opinion: I think Savelli is telling the truth of what he is doing. There IS such a thing as Chi/Qi/Ki. Many people don't realise that it exists or that they can even use it. Many people are also "worn down" by the world and life, and become either cynical, doubtful, faithless, or just never look. Hence unbelief of it's existence.

Oh, and I'm sure that Mr. Savelli could get a million dollars if he wanted to win it, but if he hasn't done it by now either he doesn't want it or he is leaving it for someone else.

"Man can only stand when he stands in the Light."

---

quote:

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Since we're on the subject of TRUTH...In a free video brochure he has a family member actually claim that he turned his EYES into those of a LEOPARD while sitting down after an Easter dinner! Is THIS "Chi/Qi/Ki", or actually some strategically placed contact lenses???

---

Edited by - mike on 04/05/2004 14:51:37

Chi is nothing more than your bodies energy. As martial artist we train to harness and utilize this energy. Most people don't even relize they are doing this when training. Think about it - you had a long day at work and your are tired but you drag you self to class and after a 5 minute warm up - you are no longer tired and warn down. You have just tapped into your bodies reserve energy.

Another important aspect of being a sucessful MAist is your spirit. You must be able to cultivate your spirit - your heart to fight. Now I haven't even visited this guys site but perhaps what he talking about is releasing your spirit on your foe. Being able to Transition from a civilized human to vicious beast is crucial to your survival in the heat of battle. Maybe this is what he is speaking of - the spirit of a lepard not actuallly the physical form.

Just my thoughts.

Justin

Just my thoughts.

Justin

A martial artist's road to success is paved with blood.
[/quote]

This is what I said in a previous reply in different words. Like I said, this is the age of science and speaking of such things as a mysterious puzzle is no longer part of our cultural education. People will just say BS to it unless it is explained correctly. The harnessing JK is referring to...if it is worked and trained on a daily basis you will see a difference. I do it myself to put myself into that feeling of being a trapped animal. And that my friends is the martial end of it. You need to balance it through humor or meditation or both so you know how to turn on and turn off at will. It needs to be controled in a civilized world...that is where the balance comes into play!

I have an "eagle eye". LOL

quote:

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Another one shot wonder? (superkid) You can belive in anything you want but that won't make it real my friend.

I have an "eagle eye". LOL

Ray...

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quote:

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quote:

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Another one shot wonder? (superkid) You can belive in anything you want but that won't make it real my friend.

I have an "eagle eye". LOL

Ray...

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Obviously superkids eyes are not that good. LOL! I think that he needs to open them up!

Mike

---

Second, I am not one of Savellis followers; I have never even met the man.

Hello again, everyone. Happy to see I got some response back. :)

Haha, actually turning into a lepoard? No, I don't think that was meant literally, just a way to imagine how to fight, mimicking animal actions and such (Five Animal Kung Fu does this). PSTDC, thanks for helping me out. :) If you want proof of all this, i suppose you could just go to whoever you wanted proof from and ask for it (although I know it's probably more complicated than that and that you would if you could, I'm just saying that proof is available from someone). As for the knocking goats down, I think it's real enough. I think he chose a goat because a goat is a biblical representation of evil (Matthew 25:32-33 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.").

As for me not being able to see I have 20/20 vision, by the way. :)

quote:

---

First off, sorry if I came off as angry or irritated; I wasn't.

Second, I am not one of Savellis followers; I have never even met the man.

Hello again, everyone. Happy to see I got some response back. :)

Haha, actually turning into a lepoard? No, I don't think that was meant literally, just a way to imagine how to fight, mimicking animal actions and such (Five Animal Kung Fu does this). PSTDC, thanks for helping me out. :) If you want proof of all this, i suppose you could just go to whoever you wanted proof from and ask for it (although I know it's probably more complicated than that and that you would if you could, I'm just saying that proof is available from someone). As for the knocking goats down, I think it's real enough. I think he chose a goat because a goat is a biblical representation of evil (Matthew 25:32-33 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.").

As for me not being able to see I have 20/20 vision, by the way. :)

"Man can only stand when he stands in the Light."

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

As for the knocking goats down, I think it's real enough. I think he chose a goat because a goat is a biblical representation of evil (Matthew 25:32-33 "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.").

As for me not being able to see I have 20/20 vision, by the way. :)

"Man can only stand when he stands in the Light."

---

I would not classify Guy Savelli’s style: Huc – Chung Kun Tao as what I know as true Kun Tao. I think Kun Tao is an inappropriate label for his web site or system (if you would call it a system – I don’t). I do not know Savelli personally, but believe by reading some of the posts here that he is not playing with a full deck. I think of Kun Tao as a brutal aggressive, combat-oriented system. Although it would appear that Savelli has a background in the arts by observing his site, his primary focus is on the mental aspects of training and pushing his correspondence courses at $450. He is out to make money!

The primary focus of Savelli’s teaching is that mental advancement nourishes technical still. Control of the mind is a prerequisite to attaining true mastery of any art; for with the advanced development of concentration, attention, mediation and consistent vigilance of ones inner motives, stressing critical concern for what really works as opposed to what thinks works or what looks good, is everything. This is common sense and you do not need to purchase several correspondence courses at $450 to develop this.

I am not arguing that the psychological aspects of training are not important. It is true that training must be mostly about physical exercises, but psychological practices are as crucial. I just do not believe Savelli is teaching a true Kun Tao self defense system.

For instance, in my research I have come across many different styles of Kuntao such as:

Hok Kuntao, Ngo Cho Kun Tao, Tat Kuntao, Wu Kuntao, Rossi Kun Tao, Kuntaw Lima-Lima, and hybrid systems such as Kalasag Kuntao Silat, and Kuntao Silat De Thouars. Then you have other specialized systems such as TACSAFE and improvised combat survival systems created by professor Rick Hernandez, which contain Kuntao among other systems.

I would like to pose the following questions:

Is there a difference in Kun Tao and Silat?
My understanding is that Kun Tao is a blend of southern Kung Fu and Indonesian Silat. I believe the names are interchangeable (however, I am sure that there is more history to it).

Is there a difference in Kuntaw or Kun Tao?
My understanding is that there is no difference, but rather a delineation of various time periods. I also read that Kuntaw is the authentic Filipino terminology and Kun Tao is that of a more modern terminology

Look forward to the discussion..

Train hard!

Mike M

quote:

---

I do not consider myself to be a knowledge expert in Kun Tao or martial arts in general, but I am learning, and as with anything; obtaining knowledge in anything is a life long process. With that being said…

I would not classify Guy Savelli’s style: Huc – Chung Kun Tao as what I know as true Kun Tao. I think Kun Tao is an inappropriate label for his web site or system (if you would call it a system – I don’t). I do not know Savelli personally, but believe by reading some of the posts here that he is not playing with a full deck. I think of Kun Tao as a brutal aggressive, combat-oriented system. Although it would appear that Savelli has a background in the arts by observing his site, his primary focus is on the mental aspects of training and pushing his correspondence courses at $450. He is out to make money!

The primary focus of Savelli’s teaching is that mental advancement nourishes technical still. Control of the mind is a prerequisite to attaining true mastery of any art; for with the advanced development of concentration, attention, mediation and consistent vigilance of ones inner motives, stressing critical concern for what really works as opposed to what thinks works or what looks good, is everything. This is common sense and you do not need to purchase several correspondence courses at $450 to develop this.

I am not arguing that the psychological aspects of training are not important. It is true that training must be mostly about physical exercises, but psychological practices are as crucial. I just do not believe Savelli is teaching a true Kun Tao self defense system.

For instance, in my research I have come across many different styles of Kuntao such as:

Hok Kuntao, Ngo Cho Kun Tao, Tat Kuntao, Wu Kuntao, Rossi Kun Tao, Kuntaw Lima-Lima, and hybrid systems such as Kalasag Kuntao Silat, and Kuntao Silat De Thouars. Then you have other specialized systems such as TACSAFE and improvised combat survival systems created by professor Rick Hernandez, which contain Kuntao among other systems.

I would like to pose the following questions:

Is there a difference in Kun Tao and Silat?
My understanding is that Kun Tao is a blend of southern Kung Fu and Indonesian Silat. I believe the names are interchangeable (however, I am sure that there is more history to it).

Is there a difference in Kuntaw or Kun Tao?
My understanding is that there is no difference, but rather a delineation of various time periods. I also read that Kuntaw is the authentic Filipino terminology and Kun Tao is that of a more modern terminology

Look forward to the discussion..

Train hard!

Mike M

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

But I will say this in his defense he is onto something. That something has been able to change my whole entire life and my arts that I study.

quote:

---

Hello Everyone,
I know that this is an old thread but I wanted to say something here that may have not been said. I have been a student of Guy Savelli and will say this that his art (in my belief) is not 100% Kun Tao, and if you look at his website, you can tell this. A fundamental difference is how he has created his spiritual.

But I will say this in his defense he is onto something. That something has been able to change my whole entire life and my arts that I study.

While alot of what he is saying looks hoaky, you have to understand you need to go deeper to understand, this in my opinion is the "science". And most people are not willing to go deeper, thus they will always call it or anything that they do not understand "Mystical". This is a catch all phrase.
Randy

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

Hello all i train under GM Arthur Sikes Top student Chaantzu Ismail Saadat in New jersey i also learn Kuen Tao.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

-Shang Wu Jing Sheng

quote:

---

Hello i am learning the Jee Shu Kuen Tao system which is the Animal techniques and i also and learning some Silat Kuen Tao's they vary from snake to leopard to crane, monkey, tiger ,mantis, eagle claw, scorpion, and dragon. what kind of Kuen Tao do you know?

-Shang Wu Jing Sheng

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

It is nice to see so much talk about GGM Reeders. I have been practicing Reeders style of Kun Tao for the past 26 years from Reeders longest studying student Master Servidio and his top student Master Young. Both have kept themselves out of the controversies that came about after Reeders death as to whom was his successor. Their goal has been to promote is Kun Tao as respectful as possible.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

As have you Ron, I have written down what I have learned over the years in atempts to preserve the arts.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

Bill
Maharlika Kuntao
Guam

quote:

---

Wow, All these people who are from the Liu Seong/William Reeders Kuntao family.. I didn't know there were so many of them. I will pay more attention to the board now since Sifu Spitale is one of my Kuntao instructors

Bill
Maharlika Kuntao
Guam

Edited by - silat1 on 02/09/2005 00:03:57

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

quote:

---

Wow, All these people who are from the Liu Seong/William Reeders Kuntao family.. I didn't know there were so many of them. I will pay more attention to the board now since Sifu Spitale is one of my Kuntao instructors

Bill
Maharlika Kuntao
Guam

Edited by - silat1 on 02/09/2005 00:03:57

---

William Reeders seemed to get around. How did so many train under him and acheive instructor level? Did he do many seminars at one time?

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

---

Robert Servidio
Art Sikes
Harry Zimmer
Artis Simmons
Ed Carter

Of these individuals the longest to train and the one whom received the entire system from Master Reeders was Master Robert Servidio. Master Servidio passed on his knowledge to several individuals, the top student of his was Master Scott Young whom I study from. After 1965 Master Reeders stopped teaching pure Kun Tao. Guy Savelli started around 1964 as did Ed Seely and Ray Cunningham. After 1965 Master Reeders began teaching what he referred to as Tibetan Tai Chi.

My comments are not intended to disparage any individuals or discredit their claims. My intention is to state was has been relayed to me through my Kun Tao lineage.

Respectfully submitted

Joe Gionti

quote:

---

I would like to add some information to the question of students of GM Reeders. Some of the first individuals to train from Master Reeders beginning around 1960 were the following:

Robert Servidio
Art Sikes
Harry Zimmer
Artis Simmons
Ed Carter

Of these individuals the longest to train and the one whom received the entire system from Master Reeders was Master Robert Servidio. Master Servidio passed on his knowledge to several individuals, the top student of his was Master Scott Young whom I study from. After 1965 Master Reeders stopped teaching pure Kun Tao. Guy Savelli started around 1964 as did Ed Seely and Ray Cunningham. After 1965 Master Reeders began teaching what he referred to as Tibetan Tai Chi.

My comments are not intended to disparage any individuals or discredit their claims. My intention is to state was has been relayed to me through my Kun Tao lineage.

Respectfully submitted

Joe Gionti

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

quote:

---

The style of Kun Tao passed down from Master Reeders to the individuals I listed in an earlier post is from China. As many have stated Liu Siong was orginally from China and when he moved to Indonesia is when he began teaching Master Reeders.

---

I have read where many Indonesian style Kun Tao methods had held on to their Chinese roots in the training methods. Where others had adapted to the indigenous fighting methods as well as environment. I guess that depends on where they are. Some may have to adapt...but that is the way of Kun tao...a good fighting system like that can adapt to environment and existing fighting styles. By researching so many martial arts, I can see where my style had done exactly that and of course what my teacher had done to adapt it to odern time self defense methods and now what I have done. All good martial arts can keep their basic theme and still adapt. Some call that selling out but evolution is a way of life!

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

You may have already stated this, but what is the lineage of your Kun Tao.

Thanks

Joe Gionti

quote:

---

Ron,

You may have already stated this, but what is the lineage of your Kun Tao.

Thanks

Joe Gionti

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

how come he never revealed that information?

Justin

quote:

---

"What the name of his teacher was is unknown to me!"

how come he never revealed that information?

---

quote:

---

"What the name of his teacher was is unknown to me!"

how come he never revealed that information?

Justin

A martial artist's road to success is paved with blood.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

greetings,
i am a student of indonesian/chinese self defense methods of GM Sikes, a pupil of both GGM Willem Reeders and Goeroe Willie Wetzel.

zainnaser...welcome to the forum. This thread is quite vast! GM Reeders put out some loyal folks out there to his style. He is lucky to have you all.

Thankyou
Hello all i train under GM Arthur Sikes Top student Chaantzu Ismail Saadat in New jersey i also learn Kuen Tao.

greetings,
i am a student of indonesian/chinese self defense methods of GM Sikes, a pupil of both GGM Willem Reeders and Goeroe Willie Wetzel.

zainnaser...welcome to the forum. This thread is quite vast! GM Reeders put out some loyal folks out there to his style. He is lucky to have you all.

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

Hello Master Ron I apologize about that posting having my name next to it. I actually posted on there to get more info on GM Sikes.So once again i apologiz i didnt know how to post it.

That is OK...this is a public forum to get everyone together to talk about their style or to make friends. Whatever this forum accomplishes, it has to be good! Good luck in your quest!

quote:

---

Hello Master Ron I apologize about that posting having my name next to it. I actually posted on there to get more info on GM Sikes.So once again i apologiz i didnt know how to post it.

That is OK...this is a public forum to get everyone together to talk about their style or to make friends. Whatever this forum accomplishes, it has to be good! Good luck in your quest!

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

---

Some Research I came across…

I had some information on an organization that was run by Professor Rick Hernandez and Renshi Pete Pukish called: CHAOS International that focused on Kuntao. The web site is www.chaosintl.org however; I can no longer access this site.

Professor Hernandez and Renshi Pukish founded TACSAFE International which provides tactical training for elite government Agencies, as well as Special Forces units, SWAT teams and Counter-terrorist units on an international basis. The web site for TACSAFE is www.tacsafe.com, however; I can no longer access this site either.

Hernandez trained and was given the rank of professor directly from Professor Florendo Visitacion (Professor Vee), and was the founder of Shen Jie Fang Kuntao system. Hernandez has a two set video training tape on this system that seems to get good reviews that is sold through Paladin Press. He also has a 2-tape video on TACSAFE or Tactical Awareness and Control Strategies Against Firearms and Edged Weapons. http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=845

Here is some background on Professor Hernandez:

http://www.paladin-press.com/authormo_0202.aspx

Renshi Pukish holds a tilte of Sifu in Kuntao Kung Fu now operates Satori Martial Arts & Healing Center in Atlanta and Satori International

http://www.satoriinternational.com/center/instructors.html

Mike

quote:

---

FYI..

Some Research I came across…

I had some information on an organization that was run by Professor Rick Hernandez and Renshi Pete Pukish called: CHAOS International that focused on Kuntao. The web site is www.chaosintl.org however; I can no longer access this site.

Professor Hernandez and Renshi Pukish founded TACSAFE International which provides tactical training for elite government Agencies, as well as Special Forces units, SWAT teams and Counter-terrorist units on an international basis. The web site for TACSAFE is www.tacsafe.com, however; I can no longer access this site either.

Hernandez trained and was given the rank of professor directly from Professor Florendo Visitacion (Professor Vee), and was the founder of Shen Jie Fang Kuntao system. Hernandez has a two set video training tape on this system that seems to get good reviews that is sold through Paladin Press. He also has a 2-tape video on TACSAFE or Tactical Awareness and Control Strategies Against Firearms and Edged Weapons. http://www.paladin-press.com/detail.aspx?ID=845

Here is some background on Professor Hernandez:

http://www.paladin-press.com/authormo_0202.aspx

Renshi Pukish holds a tilte of Sifu in Kuntao Kung Fu now operates Satori Martial Arts & Healing Center in Atlanta and Satori International

http://www.satoriinternational.com/center/instructors.html

Mike

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

thank you

karateka@zoominternet.net

I have sent you an email. If you send me your information I will forward it on to Scott. I am an friend and over 20 year student of his. I will give you all the necessary information once I receive your email.

respectfully,

vmijjg91

quote:

---

Karateka,

I have sent you an email. If you send me your information I will forward it on to Scott. I am an friend and over 20 year student of his. I will give you all the necessary information once I receive your email.

respectfully,

vmijjg91

---

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein

quote:

---

quote:

---

Karateka,

I have sent you an email. If you send me your information I will forward it on to Scott. I am an friend and over 20 year student of his. I will give you all the necessary information once I receive your email.

respectfully,

vmijjg91

---

have you guys ever been to a workshop in kuntao by ron? I did one a couple of years ago and i never saw anything like that style before. i like jkd but someday i plan on learning it. its a little crazy and it will put you in jail if you ever use kuntao in a fight. but someday i would like to learn it as an art form to have a whole style to fall back on.

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein

---

quote:

---

What is up with this Readers Kuntao thread?

Its the #2 most read and #3 most replied to thread on this PSDTC forum.

When you consider PSDTC teaches Rossi Kuntao and most of the participants on this forum have studied Rossi Kuntao through PSDTC, its very surprising how little has been discussed about it on this forum.

Out of 807 threads and 6606 postings; the phrase Rossi Kun Tao was used in 47 postings for a combined total of 62 times. That equates to less than 5% of all the threads and less than .9% of the postings on this forum mentioned rossi kuntao.

Thats pretty bad.

Adios,
Quest

Whats my signature? A suppressed Heckler & Koch P7.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
2148 South Main St.
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com

From reading this forum I can state that Chinese Kuntao came into the U.S. from very few sources. Not a lot of teachers. I guess it was due to the teachers oath of secrecy. Well chinese Kuntao teachers but it seems that in the Philipines they kept this tradition of secrecy.

It seems this are the teachers that brought Chinese Kuntao to the U.S.

Willem Reeders,
Willie Wetzel and
Willem de Thouars.

I would love to meet teachers here in California that learned from the first two mentioned teachers. I have been to a couple seminars with Willem de Thouars. All I can say is that he is INCREDIBLE!!
I might even move to Colorado to learn from him. I know he does not teach openly and also not to anyone. I will do my best.Do to his agre I hope he will live a very long long time.

I heard that Willem Reeders and Willem de Thouars knew each other and also share a lot of info. Also that the one that demonstrated Kuntao to Bruce Lee was Willem Reeders. Supposely Bruce Lee was amazed at Reeders speed. Supposely he caught a Bruce Lee punch in mid air.

Well good day to all!

quote:

---

Can anyone give me information as to any teachers of Master Reeders style in California.

From reading this forum I can state that Chinese Kuntao came into the U.S. from very few sources. Not a lot of teachers. I guess it was due to the teachers oath of secrecy. Well chinese Kuntao teachers but it seems that in the Philipines they kept this tradition of secrecy.

It seems this are the teachers that brought Chinese Kuntao to the U.S.

Willem Reeders,
Willie Wetzel and
Willem de Thouars.

I would love to meet teachers here in California that learned from the first two mentioned teachers. I have been to a couple seminars with Willem de Thouars. All I can say is that he is INCREDIBLE!!
I might even move to Colorado to learn from him. I know he does not teach openly and also not to anyone. I will do my best.Do to his agre I hope he will live a very long long time.

I heard that Willem Reeders and Willem de Thouars knew each other and also share a lot of info. Also that the one that demonstrated Kuntao to Bruce Lee was Willem Reeders. Supposely Bruce Lee was amazed at Reeders speed. Supposely he caught a Bruce Lee punch in mid air.

Well good day to all!

To know is to not know

---

I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.
Albert Einstein

It would be benificial to see some video clips of all the mentioned varieties of the style to compare and contrast the differences and similarities.

does kun tao have theories of attack that are similar across the varied kun taoists?

quote:

---

you only go to jail if they find the body. right? haha.

It would be benificial to see some video clips of all the mentioned varieties of the style to compare and contrast the differences and similarities.

does kun tao have theories of attack that are similar across the varied kun taoists?

Loy Lau Hoi Sung Lut Sao Jik Chun

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

From reading this forum I can state that Chinese Kuntao came into the U.S. from very few sources. Not a lot of teachers. I guess it was due to the teachers oath of secrecy. Well chinese Kuntao teachers but it seems that in the Philipines they kept this tradition of secrecy.

It seems this are the teachers that brought Chinese Kuntao to the U.S.

Willem Reeders,
Willie Wetzel and
Willem de Thouars.

I would love to meet teachers here in California that learned from the first two mentioned teachers. I have been to a couple seminars with Willem de Thouars. All I can say is that he is INCREDIBLE!!
I might even move to Colorado to learn from him. I know he does not teach openly and also not to anyone. I will do my best.Do to his agre I hope he will live a very long long time.

I heard that Willem Reeders and Willem de Thouars knew each other and also share a lot of info. Also that the one that demonstrated Kuntao to Bruce Lee was Willem Reeders. Supposely Bruce Lee was amazed at Reeders speed. Supposely he caught a Bruce Lee punch in mid air.

Well good day to all!

To know is to not know
[/quote]

quote:

---

It is interesting that there is so much about Bill Reeders from persons that I personally cant seem to remember ,as well as second generation {masters of kuntao},I am familiar with Guy Savelli who studied briefly with Bill and has somehow managed to set himself up as grand master.I know Art Sikes,Artis Simmons,As a senior student of Bill's it owuld seem that i would have had major dealings with these people,,in truth Bill did most of his teaching in Dunkirk New york,had several club locations,The real holder of the sash from Bill is Jerry Bradigan,who is still teaching,I remember when he started with Bill,a fantastic talent,along with his brother Tom who is a physical therapist,Also if certain parties speak of Hoc tsang,ask them about que tan,quo tsan,and the styles of the minnecabau.As for myself,well if it is important,feel free to contact me

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

quote:

---

hi ron i think that i remember you from willy wetzels club in beaver falls if my memory serves me didnt you visit seong wa hui with willy,,i miss him he always was very nice to talk to.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

quote:

---

quote:

---

hi ron i think that i remember you from willy wetzels club in beaver falls if my memory serves me didnt you visit seong wa hui with willy,,i miss him he always was very nice to talk to.

---

That doesn't sound familiar. Though I have been travelling around learning here and there for about 25 years so maybe this one slipped by my memory banks.

I am always happy to see Kun Tao on this forum though. Its a rare style. I feel lucky to have the Kun Tao I do.

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

---

quote:

---

[quote]]That doesn't sound familiar. Though I have been travelling around learning here and there for about 25 years so maybe this one slipped by my memory banks.

I am always happy to see Kun Tao on this forum though. Its a rare style. I feel lucky to have the Kun Tao I do.

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

[/quote

---

hi ron i think that i remember you from willy wetzels club in beaver falls if my memory serves me didnt you visit seong wa hui with willy,,i miss him he always was very nice to talk to.

quote:

---

if any one wishes to see bill reeders,willy wetzel,and lieu seong,i do have a photo or two taken in about 1937,however i will have to mail it to you as i am too stupid to email one.Also in all the discussions on bill's techniques,i have heard no one speak of small circle,it is in the khilap jurus,,im really not sure if much is known of it as bill shared it with a few of us just prior to his death.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

quote:

---

I am a student of WM kune tao under Bob Servidio and Scott Young. Master Reeders studied Kune Tao from his uncle Lieu Sieong. He also studied many other things as well. As far as the pattern goes, it is a representation of the footwork of the 3, 4, and 5 stances and the circles are just the range of movement of the feet. As far as Savelli goes, he only earned an orange sash and the story about beating Reeders is obviosly false. I have heard of a story that could have been twisted to reach this conclusion but I will not go into this online.

---

I would very much like to join.....Ochez Burgess

I am moving to Virginia and would like to know if there is an authentic Kuntao instructor i can train with.

Thanks.

quote:

---

Hello everyone,

I am moving to Virginia and would like to know if there is an authentic Kuntao instructor i can train with.

Thanks.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

quote:

---

Hello everyone,

I am moving to Virginia and would like to know if there is an authentic Kuntao instructor i can train with.

Thanks.

---

So where was it that "Bill" shared this 'small circle' with you??? Just wondering how high I need to lift my arm to save my watch from your rising BS in this forum!

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

[/quote]

quote:

---

quote:

---

quote:

---

Hey Uncle Tiger.....

So where was it that "Bill" shared this 'small circle' with you??? Just wondering how high I need to lift my arm to save my watch from your rising BS in this forum!

Edited by - silence on 01/08/2008 13:54:56

---

---

---

quote:

---

Silence--I learned it in Dunkirk new york in 1966,most likely well before you were a twinkle in your fathers eye.

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

"...Also in all the discussions on bill's techniques,i have heard no one speak of small circle,it is in the khilap jurus,,im really not sure if much is known of it as bill shared it with a few of us just prior to his death."

My question is about the part where you say "Just prior to his death" Was it in '66 or was it just prior to his death - I'm confused?

And you may be in luck - I live in California too.

It's just that there is a lot of mis-information out there and I've chosen to ignore all of it until I ran across someone who falsely claims to have been somewhere he was not, learning something he didn't, from someone who deserves better in memoriam.

Silence

quote:

---

Point taken Ron -

It's just that there is a lot of mis-information out there and I've chosen to ignore all of it until I ran across someone who falsely claims to have been somewhere he was not, learning something he didn't, from someone who deserves better in memoriam.

Silence

---

Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com

Thank you for clarifying my confusion. It is often difficult to clear the truth from the 'posers' claiming that they studied with Grand Master Liu Siong. I havent seen his children in a long time and hearing you mention Charlie brought back LOTS of memories of his family and that great time.

I thank you for your invitation and look forward to taking you up on it and sharing some things that Liu Siong graciously shared with me.

All best,
Silence

www.lcima.us

quote:

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Looks like its been a while but If any one is interested in training in Kuntao Master Lou is in California

www.lcima.us

SN

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Ron Kosakowski
Practical Self Defense Training Center
847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69)
Waterbury, CT 06706
203-596-9073
info@psdtc.com
http://www.psdtc.com
http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com