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I'm doing research on the roots of my style, which is a blend of Shotokan(75%) and Kun Tao(25%). The Kun Tao part descends from Grand Master Willem Reeders, but I've been unable to find accurate information on specifically what style of Kun Tao he learned and taught. I'm not looking for the stuff that Master Guy Savelli is teaching.(I've got my reservations about the authenticity of what he's teaching) In other words, the Kun Tao that Master Reeders taught without all the "spiritual" stuff that some people have thrown into it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

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Ron

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I found a few links:
http://www.geocities.com/kungfufed/reeders.html
http://home.rochester.rr.com/erikh/Kungfu.html
You can also check out nasda.net
it's Grandmaster Art Sikes site, he was GM Reeders top student.
I just started learning Reeder's Kun Tao Silat, and have been trying to find out info on it too. I guess it's easier to find out what he didn't study!

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Ron

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Thanks to Ron for the e-mailed reference, I'm having that followed up on. Thanks also to runsun for the information..unfortunately I e-mailed Master Sikes a number of months back, but he has never responded...I will continue to search. Thanks again!

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Ron

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duh, what am I thinking? I can just ask my teacher. He studied under GM Reeders also! He's an inner door student to GM Sikes too, his mother used to be married to GM Sikes. GM Sikes' school is in Cleveland, and we're in Buffalo, but my teacher still travels to his school several times throughout the year. You want to know styles? I'll ask him. I know he's told me about the silat, Ba Gua Zhang, Tai Chi, and Arnis influence so far. Center line theory too, similar to Wing Chun. I get the feeling that all these guys don't like the internet too much, as evidenced by the lack of info out there.
Also, as far as Savelli, I don't know about him too much. I heard that al though he did earn his orange sash, he didn't "earn" his orange sash.

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Ron

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Not sure if this is pertinent , but a Guy Savelli's web site worldkungfu.com . In it he implies he is a student of Master Reeder[ or was ] Secret movement#4 is to me vague. footwork patterns I can't figure [ thats why there secret you dummy]. Check it out , perhaps explain it to me.

D Van

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Ron

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

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greetings,
i am a student of indonesian/chinese self defense methods of GM Sikes, a pupil of both GGM Willem Reeders and Goeroe Willie Wetzel.

Ells,
GGM Reeder's kuntao was a taught to him by his uncle. to my knowledge it was a family style of southern gungfu. his uncle was a shaolin priest. Where do you study, if you dont mind my asking?

our kuntao has both chinese and indonesian influences. it is stated that GM Reeders had multiple silat teachers.

"He studied under GM Reeders also!"

clarification: i did not study with GM Reeders. i was much too young. i did however go to his house on many occasions with my father, his student. at that time i was between the ages of five and ten.

that diagram is a diamond pattern, two triangles placed back to back. it is so vague that you could infer whatever you'd like about those movements, but the general idea is to move off angle and in to counter. a common kuntao concept. i wouldnt try to read to much into that "secret".

i for one would like to hear a more detailed account of how guy savelli 'defeated' GM Reeders to achieve his orange sash.

i concur that practice is the road to mastery. i wouldnt say that there are secrets, but there are indeed concepts and principles that are very important in kuntaosilat training.

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Ron

sorry, didnt mean to infer any 'contrivance' on your part.

i think we both agree that practice is the key to success.

"As for the diamond footwork pattern, in our style of Kun Tao it is used to get off your opponents centerline, especially if he hs a weapon of some sort, projectile or otherwise! It definately is very valuable to any style to understand that particular pattern along with the others as well. It gives that effortless effort advantage needed so you don't have to be a serious athlete along with being big and strong just to handle an average street situation...if one should occur, of course! In conclusion, I personally feel Kun Tao ha educated me to understand all the other styles I do. And vise versa!"

triangular movement is a distinguishing feature of our style of self defense as well. the use of the feet for mobility and as weaponry along lines of engagement that are designed to intercept the attacker and destroy both his balance and structure, preferably whilst striking him.

use of the triangle for a template to understand the strength and weaknessess of the human body has been very beneficial for me in understanding the application of my art.

by comparison, the male triangle is like 'entering' of aikido. first timing-interceptive.

the female triangle is like 'tenkan' or turning, and allows attaching and redirecting of strong attacks.

when combined with a forward penetrative movement coming from the advantageous angle which can influence the spine of the opponent, these movements become extremely effective.

besides the triangle, we use the square and circle(spiral) geometry. kind of an amorphous categorization system that encompasses an untold number of techniques based on a basic 'alphabet' of movements. variation in principle creates variation in technique, as long as it conforms to good principle, its good.

i think the orientation towards intelligent and correspondent movement is one of the major strengths of kuntao/silat/kuntaw styles.

peace.

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I am a student of WM kune tao under Bob Servidio and Scott Young. Master Reeders studied Kune Tao from his uncle Lieu Sieong. He also studied many other things as well. As far as the pattern goes, it is a representation of the footwork of the 3, 4, and 5 stances and the circles are just the range of movement of the feet. As far as Savelli goes, he only earned an orange sash and the story about beating Reeders is obviosly false. I have heard of a story that could have been twisted to reach this conclusion but I will not go into this online.

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Ron

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