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Reeders' style of Kun Tao

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fullcombat USA 325 Posts	Posted - 04/25/2004 : 19:16:53 I do not consider myself to be a knowledge expert in Kun Tao or martial arts in general, but I am learning, and as with anything; obtaining knowledge in anything is a life long process. With that being said… I would not classify Guy Savelli’s style: Huc – Chung Kun Tao as what I know as true Kun Tao. I think Kun Tao is an inappropriate label for his web site or system (if you would call it a system – I don’t). I do not know Savelli personally, but believe by reading some of the posts here that he is not playing with a full deck. I think of Kun Tao as a brutal aggressive, combat-oriented system. Although it would appear that Savelli has a background in the arts by observing his site, his primary focus is on the mental aspects of training and pushing his correspondence courses at $450. He is out to make money! The primary focus of Savelli’s teaching is that mental advancement nourishes technical still. Control of the mind is a prerequisite to attaining true mastery of any art; for with the advanced development of concentration, attention, mediation and consistent vigilance of ones inner motives, stressing critical concern for what really works as opposed to what thinks works or what looks good, is everything. This is common sense and you do not need to purchase several correspondence courses at $450 to develop this. I am not arguing that the psychological aspects of training are not important. It is true that training must be mostly about physical exercises, but psychological practices are as crucial. I just do not believe Savelli is teaching a true Kun Tao self defense system. For instance, in my research I have come across many different styles of Kuntao such as: Hok Kuntao, Ngo Cho Kun Tao, Tat Kuntao, Wu Kuntao, Rossi Kun Tao, Kuntaw Lima-Lima, and hybrid systems such as Kalasag Kuntao Silat, and Kuntao Silat De Thouars. Then you have other specialized systems such as TACSAFE and improvised combat survival systems created by professor Rick Hernandez, which contain Kuntao among other systems. I would like to pose the following questions: Is there a difference in Kun Tao and Silat? My understanding is that Kun Tao is a blend of southern Kung Fu and Indonesian Silat. I believe the names are interchangeable (however, I am sure that there is more history to it). Is there a difference in Kuntaw or Kun Tao? My understanding is that there is no difference, but rather a delineation of various time periods. I also read that Kuntaw is the authentic Filipino terminology and Kun Tao is that of a more modern terminology Look forward to the discussion.. Train hard! Mike M
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 04/25/2004 : 23:12:51 quote: I do not consider myself to be a knowledge expert in Kun Tao or martial arts in general, but I am learning, and as with anything; obtaining knowledge in anything is a life long process. With that being said… I would not classify Guy Savelli’s style: Huc – Chung Kun Tao as what I know as true Kun Tao. I think Kun Tao is an inappropriate label for his web site or system (if you would call it a system – I don’t). I do not know Savelli personally, but believe by reading some of the posts here that he is not playing with a full deck. I think of Kun Tao as a brutal aggressive, combat-oriented system. Although it would appear that Savelli has a background in the arts by observing his site, his primary focus is on the mental aspects of training and pushing his correspondence courses at $450. He is out to make money! The primary focus of Savelli’s teaching is that mental advancement nourishes technical still. Control of the mind is a prerequisite to attaining true mastery of any art; for with the advanced development of concentration, attention, mediation and consistent vigilance of ones inner motives, stressing critical concern for what really works as opposed to what thinks works or what looks good, is everything. This is common sense and you do not need to purchase several correspondence courses at $450 to develop this. I am not arguing that the psychological aspects of training are not important. It is true that training must be mostly about physical exercises, but psychological practices are as crucial. I just do not believe Savelli is teaching a true Kun Tao self defense system. For instance, in my research I have come across many different styles of Kuntao such as: Hok Kuntao, Ngo Cho Kun Tao, Tat Kuntao, Wu Kuntao, Rossi Kun Tao, Kuntaw Lima-Lima, and hybrid systems such as Kalasag Kuntao Silat, and Kuntao Silat De Thouars. Then you have other specialized systems such as TACSAFE and improvised combat survival systems created by professor Rick Hernandez, which contain Kuntao among other systems. I would like to pose the following questions: Is there a difference in Kun Tao and Silat? My understanding is that Kun Tao is a blend of southern Kung Fu and Indonesian Silat. I believe the names are interchangeable (however, I am sure that there is more history to it). Is there a difference in Kuntaw or Kun Tao? My understanding is that there is no difference, but rather a delineation of various time periods. I also read that Kuntaw is the authentic Filipino terminology and Kun Tao is that of a more modern terminology Look forward to the discussion.. Train hard! Mike M Mike, welcome to the forum! I think you hit the nail on the head on what you say here. From what I see, the only differense besides a few subtle ways are the individuals teaching. The amount of intensity they put in it. I have seen sequence pics where people practicing look overweight. There are Rossi Kun Tao guys even though I disagree with them calling it Rossi Kun Tao, look very Karate oriented and practice it that way! I just saw a tape where the guy teaching had no intensity behind his technique at all and looked very casual in his technique although the technique had good potential. And over and above, I can usually tell a good Kun Tao fighter by his body position and his or her body mechanics. Its a dead give away (no pun intended) Its one of the oldest styles in the world today and Filipino Kun tao has the test of time and evolution behind it. Think of a style that had battles that went from China onto Indonesia and th Philippines and had to adapt to the existing fighting methods of a foriegn land and evolve again. You definately will see various styles due to the environment and the weapons of where that style of Kun Tao comes from but in general from what I can see, they look simular in a lot of ways also. As for the differense between Kuntaw and Kun Tao...from what I understand the word Kun as fist was eliminated to make the word Kuntaw more of a "Tagolog word" so it will be more considered to be indiginous to the Philippines. My teacher brought his style back from the Philippines and calls it Kun Tao. But he did used to explain the it was also spelled Kuntao and Kuntaw. I think to him there was no difference. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 08/22/2004 : 19:09:06 Wow, there are 2030 readers (NO PUN INTENDED) in this part of the forum. Must be interesting material here! I am happy it is educational to the folks who follow this forum! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
randy 1 Posts	Posted - 01/03/2005 : 00:56:50 Hello Everyone, I know that this is an old thread but I wanted to say something here that may have not been said. I have been a student of Guy Savelli and will say this that his art (in my belief) is not 100% Kun Tao, and if you look at his website, you can tell this. A fundamental difference is how he has created his spiritual. But I will say this in his defense he is onto something. That something has been able to change my whole entire life and my arts that I study. While alot of what he is saying looks hoaky, you have to understand you need to go deeper to understand, this in my opinion is the "science". And most people are not willing to go deeper, thus they will always call it or anything that they do not understand "Mystical". This is a catch all phrase. Randy
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 01/04/2005 : 10:18:16 quote: Hello Everyone, I know that this is an old thread but I wanted to say something here that may have not been said. I have been a student of Guy Savelli and will say this that his art (in my belief) is not 100% Kun Tao, and if you look at his website, you can tell this. A fundamental difference is how he has created his spiritual. But I will say this in his defense he is onto something. That something has been able to change my whole entire life and my arts that I study. While alot of what he is saying looks hoaky, you have to understand you need to go deeper to understand, this in my opinion is the "science". And most people are not willing to go deeper, thus they will always call it or anything that they do not understand "Mystical". This is a catch all phrase. Randy Randy...welcome to the forum! I would like to see more people in here involved with Kun Tao (regardless of the spelling)! I think what you say here, I had explained somewhere on this thread in other words. Kun Tao does get deep and I could see where it can be considered to be mystical. And do to my understanding of this style especially, it is hard to fool me with "martial art trickery!" As for knocking out goats in one room while being in another room...well, if that can be proven to me, I am a student of that style for life. There may be areas of martial arts I may not have seen. But I also know there has been a lot of trickery used over the years going back to ancient times to create rumors of prowess in a particular style. The Chinese have used many tricks over the years, Indonesians use a lot of stuff that can scare the pants off of you. Letting bats coming out of the Pendekars mouth, a popular trick...but lets face the facts here due to the word "science" had popped in in this last reply. Look at voodoo...all the combinations of herbs and blowfish poisons are used to make people look like they are dead and brought back to life. It scared the hell out of the surrounding folks in the area for centuries and NO one messed with the people involved in that religion! Kun Tao, due to its simplicity, already looks fake in its technique until the techniques are felt. But when one makes certain illogical claims, I can see where a thread like this one can carry on for 4 pages and be brought back to life. There are a lot of intelligent people on this forum that just need proof. Faith is the mentality of the past and superstition is becoming extict by the newer generations. The stuff I do by draining energy from someone, I do it in front of people and have done it to up to 5 people in a row. But I explain it scientifically. Though the bodies energy still isn't understood for the most part by science, it obviously exists. No tricks, I just explain it to my students so they may be able to do it some day. There are even deeper areas and "darker areas of Kun Tao that are explained to those deeply involved in my style. Science to me is a bunch of theories that are eventually proven facts...art is something made from nothing and then sold! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
LionHeart USA 2 Posts	Posted - 01/04/2005 : 10:29:34 Hello all i train under GM Arthur Sikes Top student Chaantzu Ismail Saadat in New jersey i also learn Kuen Tao.
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 01/05/2005 : 00:31:11 quote: Hello all i train under GM Arthur Sikes Top student Chaantzu Ismail Saadat in New jersey i also learn Kuen Tao. Lionheart...I would like to welcome you aboard. I would like to hear more about your Kun Tao. It sounds like yours is Chinese? It probably would be appropriate to start another thread to talk about another particular style of Kun Tao! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
LionHeart USA 2 Posts	Posted - 01/22/2005 : 00:10:31 Hello i am learning the Jee Shu Kuen Tao system which is the Animal techniques and i also and learning some Silat Kuen Tao's they vary from snake to leopard to crane, monkey, tiger ,mantis, eagle claw, scorpion, and dragon. what kind of Kuen Tao do you know? -Shang Wu Jing Sheng
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 01/24/2005 : 12:31:12 quote: Hello i am learning the Jee Shu Kuen Tao system which is the Animal techniques and i also and learning some Silat Kuen Tao's they vary from snake to leopard to crane, monkey, tiger ,mantis, eagle claw, scorpion, and dragon. what kind of Kuen Tao do you know? -Shang Wu Jing Sheng It sounds like the one you are referring to has a Chinese base to it or is Chinese in general. Kun Tao from anywhere is down and dirty and well balanced. Mine is Filipino. There are many different Filipino styles due to the fact each tribe would have to adapt their style to the existing fighting methods and weapons their enemies had. So that varied the styles a little bit here and there. Stay with it and train hard, you won't regret it in the future. We look forward to hearing more from you! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
n/a 11 Posts	Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:16:12 It is nice to see so much talk about GGM Reeders. I have been practicing Reeders style of Kun Tao for the past 26 years from Reeders longest studying student Master Servidio and his top student Master Young. Both have kept themselves out of the controversies that came about after Reeders death as to whom was his successor. Their goal has been to promote is Kun Tao as respectful as possible.
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:29:27 quote: It is nice to see so much talk about GGM Reeders. I have been practicing Reeders style of Kun Tao for the past 26 years from Reeders longest studying student Master Servidio and his top student Master Young. Both have kept themselves out of the controversies that came about after Reeders death as to whom was his successor. Their goal has been to promote is Kun Tao as respectful as possible. Wow, there has been 3246 people looking on this part of the forum so far! Kun Tao certainly is rising in popularity! It is hard to find a true ancient martial art that preserves the old ways and training methods that worked for 2000 years successfully. If our history is wiped out through new changes and watered down opinions we can only guess and/or imagine what it is like through books and hope for the best that it is accurate information. everyone in Kun Tao should work hard to preserve their style in every detail. I have notes and a lot on film so my style is not lost. And there is still work to do to make sure more of it is recorded. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
n/a 11 Posts	Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:33:55 As have you Ron, I have written down what I have learned over the years in atempts to preserve the arts.
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 02/08/2005 : 15:05:02 quote: As have you Ron, I have written down what I have learned over the years in atempts to preserve the arts. That is good...who do you train under right now? And where? Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com
silat1 7 Posts	Posted - 02/09/2005 : 00:01:45 Wow, All these people who are from the Liu Seong/William Reeders Kuntao family.. I didn't know there were so many of them. I will pay more attention to the board now since Sifu Spitale is one of my Kuntao instructors Bill Maharlika Kuntao Guam Edited by - silat1 on 02/09/2005 00:03:57
psdtc USA 6555 Posts	Posted - 02/10/2005 : 23:45:07 quote: Wow, All these people who are from the Liu Seong/William Reeders Kuntao family.. I didn't know there were so many of them. I will pay more attention to the board now since Sifu Spitale is one of my Kuntao instructors Bill Maharlika Kuntao Guam Edited by - silat1 on 02/09/2005 00:03:57 William Reeders seemed to get around. How did so many train under him and acheive instructor level? Did he do many seminars at one time? Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 2148 South Main St. Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com

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