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A mosque at gound zero in NYC?

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psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 07/27/2010 : 13:37:25 quote: I don't know who you're talking to, but the ones I'm talking to have more pressing matters on their plate. JMJ -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation I understand but not having a mosque built on ground zero is still a major concern for many. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 07/27/2010 : 13:44:11 quote: It can't be too important a news story - I just did a search of the Pape Organ since the first of the month for the word "mosque" and the only hit referencing the issue was a (very) short AP piece printed on July 14 about the "raucuous" hearing about it. (It also notes "nearly 100 people" attended. Jeez, any time of day or night you can find a hundred New Yorkers to piss and moan about absolutely ANYTHING. Said nearly-100 included, of course, the usual contingent of grandstanding politicians.) Now, if the Waterbury Republican-American - not exactly a bastion of commie-pinko, tree-and-beardy-hugging journalism - doesn't consider it so newsy... JMJ P.S. Nothing at all came up when I searched for "Cordoba" -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation I have the TV on in the background; usually CNN and it was all over it as of last week. Maybe the missing sailor in Afghanistan is taking the priority right now. Not that it will open eyes to look into a better way to handle it there iether. To many kiss- asses and not enough show of power makes us look week. Its all along the same subject. Then again, I often wonder why it is Afghanistan taking the full licks for 911 when Saudi Arabia had a major play there also. Hmmm Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 07/27/2010 : 15:20:46 quote: I understand but not having a mosque built on ground zero is still a major concern for many. Again, it isn't - it's three or four blocks away. quote: I have the TV on in the background; usually CNN and it was all over it as of last week. Seriously, Ron - shut the damned thing off. It isn't doing you any good, and this tempest-in-a-teapot is the perfect example of why: the construction of a mosque in lower Manhattan really (sincerely and truly) is so far removed from the ranks of Stuff That Really Matters as to be trivial... yet these talking-head idiots see it as a way to stir the pot, get people cranked up, and draw eyeballs. quote: To many kiss- asses and not enough show of power makes us look week. Um, actually the principal reason the US was targeted by those nutjobs in the first place was decades of US (and British) intervention in the region. Had the sage advice of Washington (and Paine, and Adams, and Jefferson) been followed and the US kept out of that hornet's nest in the first place, not only would the Trade Center still stand, but the country would likely not be teetering on the verge of bankruptcy, and the dollar on the verge of collapse. quote: I often wonder why it is Afghanistan taking the full licks for 911 There's no cause to wonder; "foreign policy" has nothing whatever to do with defending the US, and everything to do with enhancing the power, prestige and wealth of the entrenched political class and their various and sundry hangers-on. JMJ -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation
lightninghands USA 528 Posts	Posted - 07/27/2010 : 18:32:45 This is a stupid debate. If you think a mosque is an insult at ground zero, then you are buying into a social belief that muslims are terrorists. Which is not true. It can be considered socially "Tacky" as Ron put it, because the general American feeling about Muslims from the middle east is, that they are questionable terrorists. They should not build any religious building any where near the site and that would show true equality. It is my opinion, that they are doing this for political gains in the Muslim community. And it is in fact a 'Tacky" move. Leave religion out of the whole thing, it only gets in the way. Loy Lau Hoi Sung Lut Sao Jik Chun Edited by - lightninghands on 07/27/2010 18:33:37 Edited by - lightninghands on 07/27/2010 18:34:15
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:15:07 quote: This is a stupid debate. If you think a mosque is an insult at ground zero, then you are buying into a social belief that muslims are terrorists. Which is not true. It can be considered socially "Tacky" as Ron put it, because the general American feeling about Muslims from the middle east is, that they are questionable terrorists. They should not build any religious building any where near the site and that would show true equality. It is my opinion, that they are doing this for political gains in the Muslim community. And it is in fact a 'Tacky" move. Leave religion out of the whole thing, it only gets in the way. Loy Lau Hoi Sung Lut Sao Jik Chun Edited by - lightninghands on 07/27/2010 18:33:37 Edited by - lightninghands on 07/27/2010 18:34:15 I disagree that this is not a good debate. Peoples eyes have to be opened somehow. This is not anything to do with religion, this is over making it look like a conquored area now has its flag up from the conquorers. That will cause instability and unrest in that area. I can tell you one thing, yes people do fear our Muslim population due to what had ocurred here amny times, not just over 911. It would really make that population look good if they took it upon themselves to eliminate terrorists there and here. You hear about it once in a while but how much of that is created to make it look good. World peace can make everyone healthy and wealthy. Unfortunately, world peace does not look possible due to extremists ruining it for those who want to be healthy and wealthy. I cannot see why they are not eliminated from witrhin, at the same time, I know why they are not. We all do! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 07/28/2010 : 11:05:44 quote: No, it is 2 blocks away. If I am not mistaken, isn't that the building that had an airplane motor crash through X-amount of floors from the 911 planes? Part of the landing gear, if I recall correctly. And it's been sitting vacant since. quote: It seems like the intervention was help for the most part. Food, arms, etc. As usual, no thank you for it all. Just attacks back both verbally and of course, physically. Then the answer is simple: DON'T DO IT. This would be as the Founders advised. And "arms" isn't exactly considered help, not by those against which they're used, at least. I mean, if you were to fling ordnance around Lancaster County for decades, even the Amish would start to get a little pissy, and might rethink that whole "peace church" thing. quote: This is not anything to do with religion, this is over making it look like a conquored area now has its flag up from the conquorers. This is asinine. If you're referring to the (ancient) practice of building a mosque atop ground formerly occupied by a temple or church... well, last I knew, nobody worshiped at a Burlington Coat Factory. Besides, the Christians, the Jews, and even the Hindus did as much. Hell, St. Nicholas - you remember him, he of the Santa Claus legend? - was reknown as a destroyer of pagan temples. Look around the Valley, and you'll find plenty of places of worship repurposed as other things, and, conversely, plenty of other things repurposed as places of worship. And I doubt anyone believes the Christian Community Church has "conquered" the former Lincoln School in Derby. quote: World peace can make everyone healthy and wealthy. ...but we're not going to get there by igniting a divisive East vs West world war. quote: Unfortunately, world peace does not look possible due to extremists ruining it for those who want to be healthy and wealthy. ...and the ones who are igniting the extremism are the very politicians and hangers-on who stand to benefit from the grief and strife. JMJ -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 07/28/2010 : 15:57:45 quote: quote: No, it is 2 blocks away. If I am not mistaken, isn't that the building that had an airplane motor crash through X-amount of floors from the 911 planes? Part of the landing gear, if I recall correctly. And it's been sitting vacant since. quote: It seems like the intervention was help for the most part. Food, arms, etc. As usual, no thank you for it all. Just attacks back both verbally and of course, physically. Then the answer is simple: DON'T DO IT. This would be as the Founders advised. And "arms" isn't exactly considered help, not by those against which they're used, at least. I mean, if you were to fling ordnance around Lancaster County for decades, even the Amish would start to get a little pissy, and might rethink that whole "peace church" thing. quote: This is not anything to do with religion, this is over making it look like a conquored area now has its flag up from the conquorers. quote: This is asinine. If you're referring to the (ancient) practice of building a mosque atop ground formerly occupied by a temple or church... well, last I knew, nobody worshiped at a Burlington Coat Factory. Besides, the Christians, the Jews, and even the Hindus did as much. Hell, St. Nicholas - you remember him, he of the Santa Claus legend? - was reknown as a destroyer of pagan temples. Look around the Valley, and you'll find plenty of places of worship repurposed as other things, and, conversely, plenty of other things repurposed as places of worship. And I doubt anyone believes the Christian Community Church has "conquered" the former Lincoln School in Derby. Ancient? then why would the people want their church right there when they know it is controversial. Regardless of Santa Clause or whatever church harmed who in the past, this is down right tacky and is a slap in the face. Its pissing off a lot of Americans and this so called liberal thinking and kissing ass is weakening the US. quote: World peace can make everyone healthy and wealthy. ...but we're not going to get there by igniting a divisive East vs West world war. quote: [quote]Unfortunately, world peace does not look possible due to extremists ruining it for those who want to be healthy and wealthy. ...and the ones who are igniting the extremism are the very politicians and hangers-on who stand to benefit from the grief and strife. I am not against any religion as I said multiple times here. My Kuntao is a Muslim style, my teachers in PI are Muslim and I love both. I am against any extremist, including the Christian idiots who kill people in abortion clinics to save lives. To me, this is a Talibon, Al Jazerra and an Al Qaeda thing. They are the problem today, not the Muslims or anyone else. The Philippines is fighting a war within against Abu-Sayaf, an off-shoot of Al Qaeda. The US is doing a great job nailing down various attempts before it hits. I personally feel the Muslim people in their own country should hunt destroy the problem. I do not see why they do not. They fear them and the governments have their hands in each others pockets. They do not see that it would be beneficial in the long run to do business with the world without these wastes to the human race? Anyway, those extremists are the people who destroyed the Twin Towers and those are the ones who need to be hunted and killed. Not fed a good luch and social time for circle jerking. I watched a show on the History Channel...ten ways to kill Osama Bin Laden. At first the show got me pissed off. I am thinking, how can this man be so freakin lucky? What is it in our government that is letting him get away with this? Then at #10 I started seeing something and what a helluva strategy we are using. Everytime, or at least almost everytime he got away, more rebel leaders who were high up got caught along with good information on the next bombing plan somewhere in the world and it was stopped. My guess is they let him slip by on purpose. Like the old adage, "restaurant owners hang around with restaurant owners, pot heads hang around with pot heads. Etc, etc. And terrorist rebels hang around with who? Something to think about before you think he is in bed with our president(s) past and present. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 07/28/2010 : 17:45:48 quote: Its pissing off a lot of Americans and this so called liberal thinking and kissing ass is weakening the US. What is this "ass-kissing" you keep talking about? They weren't handed the building, they BOUGHT it. Now they want to use the property they own, fair and square, in what's probably the country's most sacred and Constitutionally-protected use. quote: I personally feel the Muslim people in their own country should hunt destroy the problem. I do not see why they do not. It's simple: "foreign policy" of the US (and the Brits and other Western powers) in their countries, over the course of decades, have empowered the terrorists. How? By convincing the general population that the US (etc) are, indeed, at war with them. Or, at the very least, that they are some sort of subhumans whose lives are meaningless and whose deaths are inconsequential. Witness: Slick Willie gets caught with his, um, cigar where it doesn't belong, so, to get the sheeple minds off of it, he bombs a factory. Harr-de-harr harr. Witness: Maddie Albright's "it's worth it" comment, regarding the deaths of countless thousands of Iraqi children due to sanctions. More recently, witness: The advent of the "predator drone" whereby your entire family can be wiped out at a wedding, by remote control from Colorado or Nevada or wherever. ("Not only are those Yanks cruel invaders, exploiters and occupiers, they're cowards to boot - they won't face the enemy in the eye, but, rather, prefer to "play video games" and - oopsie! - miss now and again.") For that matter, witness: Your dismissal (above) of the list I posted of Muslim dead in the attack, And, of course, witness: This whole tempest-in-a-teapot over building a mosque, when there wouldn't be one over construction of any other kind of house of worship there. You think the people over there don't notice this sht? As I said before, if you were to fling ordnance around Lancaster County for decades, even the Amish would start to get a little pissy, and might rethink that whole "peace church" thing. Add insult to injury by treating them like dirt and they surely would. All of it furthers the agenda of the politicians, the defense contractors, ... who amass wealth and power to "protect us" from the terrible/awful/nasty/dangerous world out there. Meanwhile, THEY are the ones who made it that way. And their partners in crime are in the media, who serve as its cheerleaders. As ol' Smedley Butler said all those years ago, it's a racket. Because of all of this, even the most upright of leaders of other countries (and their lizards tend to be slimier than ours) find their hands tied. Look at Pakistan. I happen to know some Pakistani leadership. They would love nothing more than to rid the country of the extremist element. Hell, man, there's money to be made, and it can't be with the crazies blowing sht up. Trouble is, due to the "ham-handed" (and I still say it's by design) way the US (etc) have acted there, a big enough share of the population is inflamed to the point that, if they tried, the country would destabilize. (Oh, and they're a NUCLEAR power, doncha forget, so there's a lot more at stake than some lizard's job.) quote: I watched a show on the History Channel AGAIN with the Tube. quote: What is it in our government that is letting him get away with this? ... My guess is they let him slip by on purpose. If so (assuming said individual is even still alive), I'd bet my explanation is closer to the truth than yours. -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 07/29/2010 : 11:21:24 quote: quote: quote: Its pissing off a lot of Americans and this so called liberal thinking and kissing ass is weakening the US. What is this "ass-kissing" you keep talking about? They weren't handed the building, they BOUGHT it. Now they want to use the property they own, fair and square, in what's probably the country's most sacred and Constitutionally-protected use. Not scaring the enemy to death is ass kissing. Yes there were mistakes but some religious fanatics were on everyone killing in the name of god for a few 1000 years. That goes for the top two religions of course but one of them has settled down in modern times. Not to mention they have other issues to deal with. quote: quote: I personally feel the Muslim people in their own country should hunt destroy the problem. I do not see why they do not. It's simple: "foreign policy" of the US (and the Brits and other Western powers) in their countries, over the course of decades, have empowered the terrorists. How? By convincing the general population that the US (etc) are, indeed, at war with them. Or, at the very least, that they are some sort of subhumans whose lives are meaningless and whose deaths are inconsequential. Witness: Slick Willie gets caught with his, um, cigar where it doesn't belong, so, to get the sheeple minds off of it, he bombs a factory. Harr-de-harr harr. Witness: Maddie Albright's "it's worth it" comment, regarding the deaths of countless thousands of Iraqi children due to sanctions. More recently, witness: The advent of the "predator drone" whereby your entire family can be wiped out at a wedding, by remote control from Colorado or Nevada or wherever. ("Not only are those Yanks cruel invaders, exploiters and occupiers, they're cowards to boot - they won't face the enemy in the eye, but, rather, prefer to "play video games" and - oopsie! - miss now and again.") For that matter, witness: Your dismissal (above) of the list I posted of Muslim dead in the attack, And, of course, witness: This whole tempest-in-a-teapot over building a mosque, when there wouldn't be one over construction of any other kind of house of worship there. You think the people over there don't notice this sht? As I said before, if you were to fling ordnance around Lancaster County for decades, even the Amish would start to get a little pissy, and might rethink that whole "peace church" thing. Add insult to injury by treating them like dirt and they surely would. All of it furthers the agenda of the politicians, the defense contractors, ... who amass wealth and power to "protect us" from the terrible/awful/nasty/dangerous world out there. Meanwhile, THEY are the ones who made it that way. And their partners in crime are in the media, who serve as its cheerleaders. As ol' Smedley Butler said all those years ago, it's a racket. Because of all of this, even the most upright of leaders of other countries (and their lizards tend to be slimier than ours) find their hands tied. Look at Pakistan. I happen to know some Pakistani leadership. They would love nothing more than to rid the country of the extremist element. Hell, man, there's money to be made, and it can't be with the crazies blowing sht up. Trouble is, due to the "ham-handed" (and I still say it's by design) way the US (etc) have acted there, a big enough share of the population is inflamed to the point that, if they tried, the country would destabilize. (Oh, and they're a NUCLEAR power, doncha forget, so there's a lot more at stake than some lizard's job.) First off, I do not know who the lizard is. Thats confusing not using direct wording. Anyway, just about every war in history has mistakes made. Mistakes they find 2 to 200 years later. The US trying to be friends as well as a scarry enemy is not a good idea in this type of war. Plus, the war should be focused on those who are causing the problem. I thought it was maybe helpful to the Iraq people to get Saddam out of there not realizing the US was going to occupy the area pissing people off. When I look back, was Saddam actually a threat to the US? Even if he did have weapons of mass destruction, what could he have done to us. If the focus stayed on Osama, there would have been more respect from both sides and maybe there would have been more cash to spend on other stuff needed lately. quote: I watched a show on the History Channel AGAIN with the Tube. quote: And you get your media info out of the air? The history channel is full of shows written by historians. quote: quote: What is it in our government that is letting him get away with this? ... My guess is they let him slip by on purpose. If so (assuming said individual is even still alive), I'd bet my explanation is closer to the truth than yours. You cut off the rest of what I said and then said your views top mine. Well, you are right and I never disagreed that the US is covering shit up and making mistakes. War historically is full of mistakes. Then again, these rebels have one thought on their minds that everyone else is wrong and would have been whether we sit and watch them tear each other apart for not having the same beliefs (which I am all for) or whether we interject. Like the bible, the Koran (Quran) has many translations and there will always be those who will fight to make their translation mainstream. Its not good either way. Then again, if there were no religious books, mountain people would be fighting vally people for whatever reason. Its an ancient tribal instinct we all have buried within us. Maybe next time, people will elect someone that knows how to deal with this instict before the world gets any worse. People are arming up preparing for the something they feel is not good. -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 07/29/2010 : 14:05:15 quote: Not scaring the enemy to death is ass kissing. So you're saying that the people who want to build the mosque = the enemy? Somehow, I doubt that's what you mean, so some clarification may be in order. quote: Yes there were mistakes but some religious fanatics were on everyone killing in the name of god for a few 1000 years. That goes for the top two religions of course but one of them has settled down in modern times. I dunno... the Proddys and Cat-licks were doing a number on each other in the northern six up until very recently. It's important to realize that Christianity and Islam aren't monolithic units, either. You say "Christian" but that could mean Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Evangelical Fundamentalist, Baptist, Anglican, Jehovah's Witness, Methodist, Mormon, Quaker, Amish, Evangelical Lutheran, Lutheran-Missouri Synod, and on, and on, ...) Likewise, Islam has its major divisions (Suni, Shi'a, Sufism, ...) and then divisions with them (Hanafi, Jafari, ...). It's really tough to speak of either major religion as being a single religion. quote: First off, I do not know who the lizard is. Thats confusing not using direct wording. C'mon, Ron, you've known me how long, now? Lizard = Politician. quote: The US trying to be friends as well as a scarry enemy is not a good idea in this type of war. Actually, it may not only be a good idea, it may be absolutely essential. This is Fourth Generation Warfare we're talking about. quote: Maybe next time, people will elect someone that knows how to deal with this instict before the world gets any worse. Sadly, I have my doubts. quote: People are arming up preparing for the something they feel is not good. And this is a very wise thing to do. The "something" that is coming, though, is likely to be economic in nature (at least initially). JMJ -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 08/18/2010 : 11:51:39 Even Obama spoke out against this Mosque going up in NYC. It is now one of the most controversial subjects going on right now. Supposedly some radicals were interviewed and they are all for it. Everyone who hosts whatever news show, talk show, comedy news show are ALL against this. The only stubborn ones are the ones who want it there. Is that good for public relations to be that stubborn? It is putting peoples opinion of Islam in a bad way. Unfortunately, no one is hearing about all the Islam people who are against this. Many are because they have a heart and an ethical understanding. Sometimes following freedom of certain rights we have here in the US can be harmful. Thats the reason why we all have the right to protest so the constitution is not taken advantage of. For the freakin 1st time I am seeing Americans stick together and being firm about it. Though it makes me wonder if this is is just another "after 911" get together where everyone will forget and give in. Obama gained a few points in my eyes by speaking out against this. If a president speaks out when he knows he will not get certain votes, I am sure it is serious! Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 08/18/2010 : 19:38:43 Yes, the media have glommed onto it... for this week. And I'm sticking to my guns, even if I'm the only non-tainted one left in this damned country, who actually takes freedom of religion and property seriously. Y'all can be socialists (either the commie or "national" variety) if you'd like, I won't. We (as in the human race) tried the lefty version for awhile: it was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and didn't work out very well. We (again homo sapiens sapiens) tried the other, too, and masses of people were shoved into ovens. Also in both cases, the "collective" got together very nicely. Thank you, but I'll have no part of it. JMJ P.S. The LLMD spoke out in FAVOR of it initially, then waffled when he discovered sticking to principles means putting BALLS over POLITICS. But he's a lizard, so... -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 08/19/2010 : 13:32:11 quote: Yes, the media have glommed onto it... for this week. And I'm sticking to my guns, even if I'm the only non-tainted one left in this damned country, who actually takes freedom of religion and property seriously. Y'all can be socialists (either the commie or "national" variety) if you'd like, I won't. We (as in the human race) tried the lefty version for awhile: it was called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and didn't work out very well. We (again homo sapiens sapiens) tried the other, too, and masses of people were shoved into ovens. Also in both cases, the "collective" got together very nicely. Thank you, but I'll have no part of it. JMJ P.S. The LLMD spoke out in FAVOR of it initially, then waffled when he discovered sticking to principles means putting BALLS over POLITICS. But he's a lizard, so... -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation Lizards, like people can see ethics in decisions...sometimes. For anyone Islam going against public popular thought is not good for public relations. We also (on the other side of the coin) have the right to protest it. Freedom of speach goes side by side with freedom or religion. They want it there bad enough why? We ALL know why! Especially since there are plenty of other empty spots to go to now a days. Spots that doesn't hurt anyones feelings. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
psdtc USA 6722 Posts	Posted - 08/29/2010 : 08:35:36 I suppose this is bias news also. Bias amoung current mainstream American thoughts everywhere besides week polititions who are afraid to speak out. http://www.jihadwatch.org Our culture of being diverce does not mean speak out when things are not going correctly. This country backs down scared with the ol tail between the legs just like Spain did. Ron Kosakowski Practical Self Defense Training Center 847 Hamilton Ave. (RT 69) Waterbury, CT 06706 203-596-9073 info@psdtc.com http://www.psdtc.com http://www.traditionalfilipinoweapons.com
johnmjoy USA 421 Posts	Posted - 08/29/2010 : 09:11:18 "Jihad Watch" biased?!? Nooooooo. Seriously, all this mosque crap is the latest attempt by the lizards to distract us from the REAL story of the day, namely how they've destroyed the economy. The collapse of the dollar is imminent, so be prepared. JMJ -- John M. Joy, Chief Technical Officer jmj@savagejoy.com Savage Joy Corporation

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